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Gringz
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 View Single Post Posted: Tue, Jul 22 2008, 10:39 PM Post subject:
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 | fsolis dijo: |  | ![[Cool]](images/smiles/smiley16.gif "Cool") What your stating Gringz , is your perception and opinion of the matter, and you are entitled to it. Along with anyone else who chooses to believe the same. But not everyone believes, or will believe the same., So you should respect the opinions of those of us who will never accept the idea, that La mafias support, was the sole major reason behind Selenas super success in Mexico, which even with her early death, no other Tejano music group has ever eclipsed! |
What I have stated (so far, I'm just getting started) is not just perception , it is fact. I never said that La Mafia's support was the SOLE reason for Selena's success, but they did indeed play VERY major role. The MAIN reason for her success was her talent , and her personality, but everyone needs help when they are starting out, just like La Mafia did when Little Joe and Ramon Ayala took them under their wings.
Not taking anything away from Selena , she was super talented , and had the talent, looks and personality to go very far , BUT we will never know how far she would have gone, whether or not Behar could have gotten her the airplay and the PR she would have needed to make it in the English Market.
Sadly it was BECAUSE of her death , the hype surrounding it, the movie, etc that her music eclipsed everyone elses in the Tejano Industry. She had been gaining on La Mafia and was running neck and neck with them with the releases at the time, and had sold 400,000 copies of "Amor Prohibido" at the time of her death. It wasn't until 2 months after her death that "Amor Prohibido" reached the million mark. Again, not taking anything away from her, her music was good enough to sell that many copies and more but it takes exposure to get those kinds of numbers, and a whole lot more people knew about Selena because of the tradgedy, and there were people like me who went out and bought every Selena CD we could find because we wanted to have it all.
I'm not trying to make it out that La Mafia "made Selena", just putting out some information that a lot of people don't seem to know , that they did help her, you stated yourself that you didn't know that. What is wrong with acknowledging that Selena had some help, I happen to think it is a very touching story, and I wish that La Mafia would be allowed by the Quintanillas to share some of their Selena stories with the rest of the world.
They literally watched her grow up and I'm sure they have plenty of stories to tell as Selena was quite the cutup and so are they.
Also what is wrong with correcting HISTORY of who actually opened the door to Mexico. It was indeed La Mafia, not Selena which she acknowledged herself. I'm not trying to bring any "version" to the history that takes anything away from Selena .
I really don't understand why you have a problem with me bringing these things to light, it's not a La Mafia vs Selena thing, I love them both and I haven't been confrontational.
I'm still working on responses to your other points so stay tuned. ![[Laughing]](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif "Laughing")
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Gringz
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View Single Post Posted: Wed, Jul 23 2008, 12:00 AM Post subject:
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| fsolis dijo: | | Well I have to give you credit for using the words " Tejano History," because unfortunately, thats what the entire Tejano music industry is becoming in Texas, very, very, fast. As far as what each of us chooses to believe about it, that is up to each one of us, to believe the version which he chooses to believe! |
We could start a whole new thread on that subject. what has happened to "the industry" is something that I predicted 9 years ago, I could see what "the industry" was doing to itself. More on that later......
Let me see , where was I? ........
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Gringz
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View Single Post Posted: Wed, Jul 23 2008, 12:31 AM Post subject:
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OK, let me see (I wish I had seen all these posts back when they were originally posted LOL)
| fsolis dijo: | | I know what you mean Normies, but La Mafia began making inroads into Mexico music, not by using purely "Tejano music sounds."That would have been the sounds of the "original Tejano bands," like Isidro Lopez, Little Joe, Alponso Ramos,and many others. When La Mafia started making inroads into Mexico, here in San Antonio many people in the music business here, thought they (La Mafia ) were changing, from Tejano music, to international music. Furthermore many of the popular "international music," groups in Mexico were already using keyboards in their music, The Mexican Super group Los Bukis, " recorded their debut album in 1975. " long before La Mafia " started making inroads into Mexico. |
Ok first of all La Mafia was making inroads into Mexico in the late 80s when the music they were recording was still considered "Tejano" even by the Industry folks in San Anto. It was being heard on the other side of the border , so they decided to go down there and get their foot in the door by performing in parking lots. Their music started making it's way down deeper into Mexico and they began playing all over Mexico. Yes it was a little different than the legends who had gone before them, in that they used keyboards (they do not claim to be the ones to introduce the keyboard sound to Mexico or even to Tejano Music as it is Mazz who gets credit for that), using their Mexican and their OWN American Influences (which were different from others) , but even then they were still considered "Tejano" . THEN when "Estas Tocando Fuego" came out, after the San Anto "industry insiders" proclaimed that they had "gone international" and accused them of "catering to the Mexicans" , called them sell-outs, which makes no sense to me whatsoever when you consider that Selena did EXACTLY, and I mean exatctly t-totally the same thing that La Mafia did but yet she was not called a sellout. She changed her music to make it a little more pop, just like La Mafia did, that's why she "went international" just like they did, they just did it first.
| Quote: |  | "La Mafia released their eponymous debut album in 1986 for Sony. Extensive touring of the U.S. and Mexico brought them renown. Their second album, Estas Tocando Fuego, came out in 1991 and sold nearly 1 million copies. Their 1993 album Ahora y Siempre went triple platinum. La Mafia has also won numerous awards including an award for Top Regional Mexican Album and Song of 1992; other releases included 1993's International, 1995's Exitos en Vivo and 1996's Un Millon de Rosas.
Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/l.....ertainment |
Another incorrect account. La Mafia had been recording albums since 1980, and had several under their belt before signing with Sony in 1990. "Estas Tocando Fuego" was their very first release on Sony and it sold OVER a million copies, and was followed up by "Ahora Y Siempre" the next year which sold over a million and a half.
| Quote: | | So with this information in mind,that La Mafia recorded their debut album in 1986. and The Mexican super group Los Bukis, recorded their debut album in 1975. it would seem that it was La Mafia who rode into Mexico following on the success of some of the biggest Mexican "International music groups," some who already had pioneered the use of the keyboards in their music, long before La Mafia,even recorded their first album. And to to suggest that La Mafia as Gringz suggested, prepared the way for Selenas future success in Mexico just does not fly. Thats like trying to say, that the success of the Rolling stones in the U.S.A. , was based solely upon the Beatles success here. The market in the United States was "ready for the groups from England," and many other English music groups succeeded and prospered here as well. |
So I guess Los Bukis are a little older than La Mafia, they recorded their first album in 1975 and La Mafia's first was in 1980. Keyboards were part of the scene for their generation, like I mentioned before, La Mafia does not claim to have started the "keyboard" introduction into Mexican or Tejano Music.
But anyway that is beside the point. La Mafia went into Mexico when no other Tejanos dared go down there. That's what opened the door for Tejano Music. It took going into Mexico to get on International TV, and La Mafia was the first to do it, that's what brought about the "Glory Days of the 90s" for Tejano Music", national and international exposure, and yeah Selena followed right behind them.
Just like the Beatles were responsible for bringing the "British Invasion" to America. Yes indeed , the British Invasion would never have happened if The Beatles had not made that initial appearance on Ed Sullivan. American teenagers were NOT (trust me I know because I was one) open to Rock and Roll (an American artform) coming from England, not at all. "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" bombed (which back then had a different meaning LOL) on American Bandstand getting a 45. It was the mas hysteria being reported in England, and smart marketing by Brian Epstein that brought about the Ed Sullivan appearance of The Beatles, after that American Teenagers couldn't get enough of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING BRITTISH, hence the "Brittish Invasion" happened. If it hadn't been for the Beatles none of those other bands, including the Rolling Stones would have made it in the US.
| Quote: | | Selena: 7 years later, Tejano transformed
"Selena was not the first female Latin singing sensation, and now there are many others. But Selena was unique. She was born and raised in Texas. She didn't know how to speak Spanish when she began singing in Spanish, yet she became the first Tejano singer to captivate audiences in the United States and Mexico." |
If that quote had stated that Selena became the first FEMALE Tejano singer to captivate audiences in the US and Mexico THEN it would be a correct statement.
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Gringz
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View Single Post Posted: Wed, Jul 23 2008, 1:45 AM Post subject:
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| fsolis dijo: | | I don't know Normies, Selena was always far more popular here in San Antonio than La Mafia, now granted, I don't know about other areas of Texas, or internationally. But I did use to know a few people In the Tejano music industry in its heyday, ( people that knew Selena very well ) before, the bottom fell out. Radio station people, a former TMA marketing director, I also know one of the top Tejano music producers in the world, who worked with most of the big Tejano groups, and quite honestly to this day I have never heard even one of them mention even once, of La Mafia paving the way for Selena's future success in music. The first time I heard it was when Gringz brought it up! But it would have been nice to have placed them both performing in different venues of the same city, and seen who would have drawn more people, and this with the benefit of La Mafia at the height of its power, and Selena barely starting to flex her muscles. That would have been awesome, but my money would have still been on " La Reina De Tejas" Selena, if it had happened here in San Antonio, Austin, or Corpus Christi. Unfortunately Normies, history has already been written upon this subject, and it will stand as such, no matter how much we dispute the facts, according to my own or Gringz own, unique perceptions or Interpretations of it. Besides I do live in south Texas, and I don't want to end up hanged by a bunch of angry Selena fans! |
Selena "always more popular in San Antonio"? First of all La Mafia and Selena were NEVER in competition. Secondly I can see where you are getting your information and now I see why you have the "perspective" you have toward La Mafia, as I also know quite a few "industry insiders" who knew Selena and the Quintanillas back in the day. What you may not realize is that there are those in "the industry" who have it in for La Mafia. It stems back to when they left the TTMA. I've always known about this "attitude" in "the industry" toward them , but never could figure out where it came from until one day I was having a conversation with a DJ friend of mine who does have a bit of that "attitude" toward La Mafia. He said to me "La Mafia really hurt La Onda when they left the TTMA". That's when the lightbulb went off in my head, that was what it was all about, why all the accounts of Tejano Music in the 90s proclaim Selena the Queen and Emilio the king , and try to leave La Mafia out completely (like they weren't even around, when they wre the ones who catipulted Tejano Music into the National and International spotlight) , it's all about them leaving the TTMAS, which BTW they did because of the politics, the same reason Little Joe did, but he got a pass , and the word was put out that he left "to make room for the younger artists" and the word on La Mafia was "they think they're too good" that "they don't consider themselves Tejano anymore". Then after they left the TTMA and made inroads into Mexico that further angered those who had tried before and and failed, then man oh man when they sold a million copies of "Estas Tocando Fuego" those "industry insiders" must have been having kiniptions (sp), It wasn't about the style of music, it was because they no longer participated in the TTMA like Selena still did, that's why she got a pass on "going international" and they were called "sellouts". When I came onto the scene in 1994 I could tell there was an undercurrent against La Mafia by "the industry" but I couldn't put my finger on why, but my friend put it all into perspective. La Mafia didn't hurt La Onda when they left, they only hurt the TTMA. I had been told by another person who was around back then, when La Mafia and Little Joe left, that it almost killed the TTMA award show , because La Mafia and Little Joe had been the biggest draws, that it got as small as it is now, and only rebounded when Selena and Emilio started making it big.
So anyway, what I'm getting at, is that many "industry insiders" especially in San Anto, will not give La Mafia props for anything they do. They could put out a CD with totally old school music, horns and everything, one that even the diehards would have to admit was totally 100% Tejano, win a Grammy, Latin Grammy for it, participate in the TTMA and draw 70,000 ppl like they did back in 1999 (more than double any crowd during the Selena/Emilio hayday), discover a cure for Cancer, and achieve world peace, and win the Nobel prize and it would not even be acknowledged by some of those people.
In the 14 years I've been following Tejano Music, I've met tons of "industry insiders" (some of whom I wish I had never met) including djs from San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, and Lubbock, promoters, club owners, several Tejano artists, and others, but I've learned something from all of them inclluding the haterz. According to everyone I have ever talked to, Selena really wasn't that big until right before her death, after those videos came out (like the Barrio Boys and Alvaro Torres and man 3 slick videos for the Amor Prohibodo CD alone) and she won the Grammy, before that she was mainly drawing children, she was not a big draw at the clubs. She was not more popular than La Mafia in San Antonio or anywhere else, but she was gaining on them and right up there with them. She did not surpass them in record sales (or even come close to it) until after her death, with her first million seller for "Amor Prohibido" coming 2 months after her death.
There is a quote from an article that came out after Selena's death that keeps getting requoted every year stating (in reference to "the glory days of the 90s):
| Quote: | | By 1994, The Big Four , Selena, Mazz, La Mafia and Emilio were selling over 200,000 albums |
Now that may be a true statement , assuming that Selena Mazz and Emilo were selling over 200,000 which I'm sure they were, BUT it doesn't mention that by 1994 La Mafia had TWO million plus sellers under their belt, 5 times more than the other three, more than the other 3 put together, kind of misleading, wouldn't you say? It makes it look like they were all on the same level selling about the same amount . They're even listed third on the list.
Again, taking nothing away from Selena, I am a fan of both, an observer from the "outside", La Mafia and Selena were both HUGE and were the only artists seen on International TV. La Mafia was the biggest MALE name and Selena was the biggest FEMALE name , La Mafia made it to International TV first , and I saw them more on TV than Selena, but they were running neck and neck and she got that cameo role in "Dos Mujeres Un Camino", which helped her , and all those videos.
The problem I have is when Abraham Quintanilla and Jose Behar want to make out like Selena was the ONLY superstar that Tejano EVER had, and that Tejano died with her, and with the "industry insiders" who have been trying to bring La Mafia down ever since.
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fsolis
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View Single Post Posted: Wed, Jul 23 2008, 8:47 AM Post subject:
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| Gringz, the topic of this thread was supposed to be " The influences of Selena - 13 years after her death," not " The Music success influence Of La Mafia upon Selena - 13 years after her death." I really fail to see how the "influence of La Mafia on Selena," regardless of how little, or how much, they had an influence upon her success, fits. Don't you think that its beginning to drift off topic? Better would have been a thread started by you upon the " Influences of la Mafia Upon Tejano Music." Or a thread about,if you wish to start it, upon "The History of Tejano music," which would be very important for the people to see, I would love to do it, but for time constraints, (to many irons in the fire), I cannot. I have some good info upon "the final nail in the coffin, of Tejano music," which I will sadly contribute. One very sad fact for me is, is that in the supposed "World Capitol Of Tejano Music," where I live, in the last ten years or more, I may have heard Tejano Music blaring from a passing car, maybe three times at the most! Completely different from when Selena was alive. I being a fan of Selena, cannot in good conscience, continue to " fan the flames that take away attention from her accomplishments." In the end,you may have to admit one thing Gringz, which is the fact, that "Selena was the most beautiful and exciting entertainer, that the Tejano Music World has ever seen, or will ever see, bar none,male or female!"
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Gringz
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fsolis
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View Single Post Posted: Wed, Jul 23 2008, 7:45 PM Post subject:
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Great, I am glad to hear that you are possibly going to do a thread on the history of Tejano Music, Gringz. I am sure that you will do a great and through job! Since Tejano music may well be on its last legs, it is very important, to document its history, and it would be great to have a nice history of Tejano music here on Juarol, so that the young people who have never even heard of it, may also get to know its music, its history, and its people. ![[]](images/smiles/smiley32.gif)
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